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Bishnu Dey
responds to Nalinaksha
Bhattacharyya
Re:
Re: My
Thoughts on the War with Iraq
I thank the moderator/s for allowing us to express our views
through this debate. Mr response to Mr. Nalinakshya Bhattacharyya's comments
are elaborated below:
[Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya]
Let your joy continue to enhance when you consider the following
points:
1. Taliban was built by US support. 2. The estimate of people
killed in Afghanistan by bombing is about 20,000. Osama has not been
killed. Thus the victims of Taliban has been killed by bombs. 3. The
new found friends of US-the Northern Alliance are also equally
cutthroat. 4. US dropped cluster bombs over Afghanistan. These cluster
bombs were coloured bright yellow- the same colour as those
compassionate food drops ordered by George W. 5.US treatment of
Taliban prisoners violate Geneva Convention. One cannot claim to
believe in due process, justice, equality, respect for law and such
other lofty ideals unless one is prepared to grant them to the people
with whose views we disagree. The people at Guantanamo bay has been
kept there without any charges. Legally US govt. therefore has the
same status as a kidnapper.
[Bishnu Dey]
1. Taliban was not created by USA, as you
seem to suggest. Afghan resistance against Soviet occupation was an
indigenous dynamic. Many resistance groups fought against the Soviet
occupation; Ahmed Shah Massoud, Gulbuddin Hikmatyar, Rashid Dostum,
Burhanuddin Rabbani, and many other feudal landlords joined forces
in their endeavor to drive the Soviets out of Afghanistan. Some
where down the line, USA under Carter administration, primarily
National Security Advisor, Mr. Zbigniew Brzezinski's formulated the
a plan to give the Soviets a black-eye mainly motivated by the
desire to "get even" following the Vietnam debacle. In
addition, another foreign policy concern arose from the fear that if
the Soviets succeeded in Afghanistan, they would one-day run over
Pakistan, with the active assistance of India. This was a major
concern, as the USA did not want the Soviets to have access to the
warm waters of the India Ocean, which would have altered the
geo-political balance in that part of the world.
Reagan administration was far more
motivated in seeing an end of the "evil empire", thus they
started to provide financially support and supply arms including,
stinger missiles etc. to the Afghan Mujahideen through the Paki
military establishments (primarily the ISI). At this stage, the ISI
driven by its own motivation, created the Taliban and made it the
influential force, through the use of US funds and armaments. In the
early stages, the Taliban was a rag-tag group of fighters, and they
did not display their fanaticism and fundamentalist leanings, but
the influx of large numbers of Arab fighters, including Osama bin
Laden quickly made this militant group into a religiously motivated
paramilitary organization. The rest is history. After the eviction
and execution of Najibullah, Rabbani became the president of
Afghanistan for a brief period, eventually driven out of power by
militias of the Taliban and Hikmatyar. Massoud and Dostum who were a
part of the Northern Alliance were forced to retreat, as the Taliban
captured power in Kabul, assisted by the ISI. Therefore, Taliban was
not a direct creation of the USA, however, they benefited from the
financial assistance and arms supplied through the ISI.
2. I am not aware of the estimate that
20,000 Afghans were martyred in Afghan liberation war. I will
appreciate if you provide me some credible reference to such claim.
I recall one incidence of bombing on a marriage party, which killed
close to 100 people, and there were other stray instances of loss of
civilian lives, but the majority of those eliminated were either
Taliban militia men or their supporters. Besides, given that the
population of Afghanistan is around 27.5 million, even if your claim
is accepted for argument sake, I do not consider that to be a
"huge" loss of life. Besides, many more Afghan lives were
lost during violent struggles within their clans over the past 20-30
years, compared to what you claim as a casualty count due to America�s
liberation war of Afghanistan. Similar struggles in other parts of
the world will show far larger fatality count. I will remind you
that Bangladesh liberation struggle culminated in the loss of
millions of innocent lives.
3. Northern Alliance may or may not be a
cut-throat, as far as the US is concerned, it was prudent on their
part to use whatever assistance they could get from local Afghans to
destroy the Taliban regime.
4. I am glad the USA used cluster bombs in
Afghanistan. Frankly, it matters little as to what bombs were used,
or what the color of those bombs were, as long as those monsters
that were responsible for the dehumanizing of the entire Afghan
society, including their children and their women were eradicated
from the face of this earth.
5. Those interned in Guantanamo Bay are
members of Al Qaeda and hardcore elements of the Taliban. Most of
them are stateless, and were engaged in terrorism. These beasts were
responsible for the killing of 2,700 of my countrymen, and they were
not engaged in a so-called "war" with the USA when they
attacked the World Trade Center. Therefore, the clause according
protection to "prisoners of war" under the Geneva
Convention is NOT applicable. It is thoroughly justifiable that
terrorists be given the treatment they deserve, which is severe
punishment. It is ludicrous to suggest that the US actions to
capture the rabid Islamic fanatic jihadi terorists and interning
them in Guantamo Bay, as "kidnappings". Only brain-dead
individuals will proclaim such, given that the world is a much safer
place today with those vicious criminals out of commission.
Now may I ask you why you are so
sympathetic towards the Taliban and Al Qaeda elements? Why are you
so aggrieved that the Taliban has been driven away from Afghanistan?
If I am not mistaken, the country that you now reside in, Canada,
was a part of the coalition that actively participated in the
actions in Afghanistan. I wonder if you have voiced your opinion
against the action of your government in it's role in driving the
Taliban regime out of power in Afghanistan. I would much appreciate
if you shared some evidence to that extent with us.
[Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya]
It will also be very wonderful to know your thoughts about the
great leaders of your wonderful country who
a) had supplied Saddam with all kinds of chemical and biological
weapons, b) supported Saddam when he used gas against Iranians and
also against Kurds, c) had incited the Shia's in 1991 ro rise against
Saddam and then coolly stepped aside as Saddam massacred them, d)
implemented a genocidal sanction against Iraq for the last 12 years
and claimed that the price of half a million Iraqi babies were
"worth it" (Madeline Albright), e)had showed the green flag
to Saddam for invading Kuwait and then used this as a pretext to
launch the first gulf war where the US army buried alive Iraqi
conscripts and also killed Iraqi soldiers who were returning home.
[Bishnu Dey]
Given that Saddam was fighting with
Khomeini led Iran, which at that time was considered to be a far
more brutal regime, it appears logical for the USA to side with Iraq
in the late 70s and 80s. For argument sake I could ask you to
provide me references in support of accusation that the USA supplied
weapons of mass destruction to Saddam, but to be fair, I concede
that Saddam probably acquired some of the biological and chemical
weaponry from the USA. Even if that were true, it was ultimately
Saddam who used the mustard gas and other chemical agents against
his own people, it was NOT the USA that "gassed" the
Kurds. Why do you flinch from assigning the blame where it is due?
Is it a requirement that in order to act and pretend like a
pseudo-secular you will have go soft on elements like Al Qaeda,
Taliban and despots like Saddam?
Regardless of what actions the USA took
following the occupation of Kuwait by Iraq, you will recall that the
US led coalition built up the force over a period of 6 months. The
Security Council took unanimous resolutions demanding Iraq to
withdraw its forces from Kuwait, but Saddam did not heed to the
collective demand of the entire world. All the Arab neighboring
states supported the USA, even the Arab League passed resolutions (I
believe in Rabat, Morocco) demanding the withdrawal of Iraqi forces
from Kuwait. Saddam steadfastly refused to withdraw, and even
threatened and taunted the coalition of States that Iraq will fight
the "Mother of all Wars" against the infidels. Well, he
did what he could and all the deaths that occurred in the liberation
war of Kuwait in 1991 squarely falls on the shoulders of Saddam and
his ruling Baath party which deliberately misled the Iraqis into
believing that they were victorious in that war, despite the
crushing defeat. Saddam had numerous opportunities up through the
very last date when war ensued, to withdraw from Kuwait, thereby
sparing the lives of the occupying soldiers and the Iraqi victims,
but he didn't. Yet you continue to consider him your hero, ironic
indeed!
I fail to understand why you continue to
blame the USA when the entire world community wanted Saddam to get
out of Kuwait! It is not like the USA unilaterally took the action
against a "peace-loving" country to further its own
interests! Even during this current war, Saddam was given an
opportunity to comply with the UN resolutions, and eventually was
asked to leave the country and go elsewhere. He could have spared
Iraq a lot of misery, if he loved his country and his people. On the
contrary he wanted to be a champion of the Muslims of the world, and
decided to confront the USA and its allies militarily. It was HIS
choice, and he is enjoying the fruits of his karma, why is this so
upsetting to you Mr. Bhattacharyya?
Let me ask Mr. Bhattacharyya that now many
Iraqi Shias, Kurds, and other minorities of Iraq are overcoming
their fear of the dreaded regime of Saddam and are actively
participating in liberating themselves from the horrible subjugation
that they endured over many decades, why do you consider it your
right to go against those suffering Iraqis, who are for the first
time seeing the hopes of a democratic state and sensing the taste of
liberty?
[Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya]
May your pride increase when you realise that
a) yours is the only country to have used a weapon of mass
destruction, b) yours is the only country which has been indicted by
the World court for terrorism (in the matter of Nicaragua vs. US) and
c) yours is a country that celebrates the genocidal Columbus.
[Bishnu Dey]
a) The use of the nuclear bomb on Japan was
justified primarily due to the fact that if that drastic step were
not taken at the time, there was a danger that far more lives would
be lost through conventional warfare in the Asian sector. Given the
fact that the Japanese army was brutal and they were no "spring
chicken" when they tortured, destroyed and killed numerous
Chinese and South East Asians. Besides, Mr. Bhattacharyya, it might
be useful to refresh your memories that it was Japan that declared
war against the USA. Pearl Harbor attack was not a very friendly act
on the part of Japan, would you not agree?
b) Indictment is not the same as been
proven to be a guilty party. Indictment is akin to being charged for
some actions. Clearly, your Communist friends and the Sandanistas in
Nicaragua were not peace loving and democratic forces. There is
ample evidence that the Sandanista regime was actively engaged in
training and harboring different leftist guerilla groups of Latin
America and there was a danger that the entire Latin America would
turn into a Communist stronghold if the Sandanistas were allowed to
remain in power. The USA did whatever was necessary to destroy them.
c) My country honors it's discoverer, why
is that such a difficult idea for you to grasp? If you can revere
Stalin after all his "humanitarian" actions, what is wrong
with us celebrating Columbus Day? Why do you have to associate Mr.
Columbus's glorious discovery of the new world with genocide?
Moreover, if you find Columbus's discovery of this "genocidal
world" so distasteful, why do you not shed your hypocrisy and
return to the land of your birth, instead of reaping the benefits
directly and indirectly derived from Mr. Columbus's discovery?
[Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya]
If they are afraid to speak out their minds then the country is not
free. And yes do tell me about their feeling of the sanctity of human
lives. They devastated Vietnam and did not pay a single dollar in
compensation. You might like to read Rogue state by William Blum.
[Bishnu Dey]
Mr. Bhattacharyya, perhaps I am not in a
position to judge the mindset of the American people, especially one
that senses danger, such as what they are experiencing currently. In
the end, it might very well turn out that they are correct in siding
with Mr. Bush in his effort in driving Saddam Hussein out of Iraq.
Only history will tell what untold damage would have taken place if
Saddam were allowed to be the leader of all the radical Muslims of
the world, given that he still possesses large stockpiles of weapons
of mass destruction. In addition to that, it is imperative that
ever-larger numbers of Islamic fanatics and radical Arabs would find
a new home in Iraq, having being driven out of Afghanistan. Like I
stated earlier, I do support the actions of Mr. Bush, and I hope
that the world will soon realize that in the long-run this war will
generate far larger benefits for the Iraqis and the world in
general. This war will also be an eye opener for aspiring dictators
and other fanatical leaders that the world has changed since 9/11,
and they will no longer have the free pass to act in manners not
acceptable by the people of the civilized and democratic world.
[Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya]
Read 9-11 by Noam Chomsky. Chomsky calls 9-11 a crime against
humanity and a historic event because for the first time victims have
used the method of large scale arbitrary violence against America. So
far the method of large scale arbitrary violence has been used by
Eurpoe and its offspring America.
[Bishnu Dey]
This is the reflection of a sick mind. I am
appalled that you go to this extent to glorify the actions of the
barbarians who changed the planet�s course through their devilish
act on 9/11, and now you justify them by calling them
"victims"? I for one expected you to be more reasonable
than what you displayed so far through your slanted opinions
favoring the despicable Al Qaeda and Taliban terrorists. Your take
on the terrorist actions of 9/11 becomes a "historic"
event because your intellectual "guru" Noam Chomsky
perceived this act as a "first time pay back" by the
so-called "victims", in this case Osama bin Laden and his
entourage succeeded in administering "large scale and arbitrary
violence" against the USA. Will you please elaborate how these
Al Qaeda elements became "victims"? Also, would you kindly
tell us if it would please you to see a second or third time
action/retaliation by these so-called "victims"?
[Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya]
The Bible also says (inter alia) that someone who does not observe
Sabbath should be killed. Read the genocidal passages in the Bible and
then I hope you will also ask your genocidal, bible thumping President
not to accept it as the word of god. I am not a Muslim, but the
current hate mongering against muslims is motivated by racism and not
by any informed scepticism about religious beliefs.
[Bishnu Dey]
You may be whatever you are, but in my book
it is called a pseudo-secular hypocrite. For anyone to consider the
perpetrators of the vicious crime against humanity as
"victims", it takes special talent, Mr. Bhattacharyya.
I am not a Christian nor a defender of
Christianity, or for that matter any religion including Hinduism,
but you will agree that even though the Bible contains a lot of
disagreeable matter, enough reforms have taken place within the
Christian and Protestant churches and other religious establishments
of the non-Islamic world to render many of the violent and hateful
contents relatively benign, as those societies increasingly adopted
secularism. The same however is not true about the Quoran, which is
accepted as the words of "Allah" hence accepted by the
Muslim population at large as their holy duty to enforce its
dictums. Remind you that the Quoran is the only "words of
god" that demand all Muslims to slay the "kuffirs".
Such and many other highly objectionable pronouncements have been
articulated through the hateful preaching by many fundamentalist
Islamic moulavis and so-called religious scholars.
[Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya]
Good. then of course you must condemn the Eishenhour doctrine which
stated that US shall defend Saudi Arabia as if it is its own
territory. US has of course been behind the Islamic fundamentalist and
corrupt Saudi regime. You must also demand that the people who trained
and introduced Osam Bin Laden in Afghanistan -aginst a government
which had women minsters- must be tried for crimes against humanity.
And about Iraq- we can get some ideas about the future from what
happened in Afghanistan. After all the chest beating about how they
are going to bring "freedom" to Afghanistan, the Bush
administration failed to provide a single dollar for Afghanistan in
its budget.
Continue with your ostrich policy.
[Bishnu Dey]
Sorry, I did not quite get what you meant
to say in the statement above. Clearly, you have displayed your
depravity of ideas without realizing that every single statement of
yours is rooted in deep-seated hatred towards America, my country.
Reasonable people can disagree but when you are so single-mindedly
preoccupied in denouncing everything that this country stands for, I
have little to add to this discourse.
Good luck,
Bishnu Dey
Published in Mukto-mona
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